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Outdated information in documentation perlmodlib #15157

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p5pRT opened this issue Jan 30, 2016 · 7 comments
Closed

Outdated information in documentation perlmodlib #15157

p5pRT opened this issue Jan 30, 2016 · 7 comments

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@p5pRT
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p5pRT commented Jan 30, 2016

Migrated from rt.perl.org#127435 (status was 'resolved')

Searchable as RT127435$

@p5pRT
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p5pRT commented Jan 30, 2016

From justin@purestblue.com

This is a bug report for perl from justin@​purestblue.com,
generated with the help of perlbug 1.40 running under perl 5.20.2.

perldoc perlmodlib

Still outdated in current version seen at http​://perldoc.perl.org/perlmodlib.html

perlmodlib suggests module developers go to nntp newsgroup comp.lang.perl.misc for module naming advice. I've been subscribed to that group for many years, and it has very, very little traffic these days, I doubt it would be a good source of assistance for naming.

Here are the sentances in question (for easy searching)​:

"If in any doubt ask for suggestions in comp.lang.perl.misc."
"Comp.lang.perl.misc is read by just about all the people who develop modules and it's the best place to ask." (I doubt this is even true!)

In addition, pause.perl.org suggests the mailing lists modules@​perl.org and module_authors@​perl.org. I think these are a suggestions (though I am not subscribed and do not know how many are - I'm sure you're better placed to tell), and perhaps #perl on irc.perl.org


Flags​:
  category=docs
  severity=low


Site configuration information for perl 5.20.2​:

Configured by Debian Project at Fri Jan 1 13​:02​:25 UTC 2016.

Summary of my perl5 (revision 5 version 20 subversion 2) configuration​:
 
  Platform​:
  osname=linux, osvers=3.16.0-4-amd64, archname=x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi
  uname='linux themisto 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 smp debian 3.16.7-ckt20-1+deb8u1 (2015-12-14) x86_64 gnulinux '
  config_args='-Dusethreads -Duselargefiles -Dccflags=-DDEBIAN -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -g -O2 -fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -Werror=format-security -Dldflags= -Wl,-z,relro -Dlddlflags=-shared -Wl,-z,relro -Dcccdlflags=-fPIC -Darchname=x86_64-linux-gnu -Dprefix=/usr -Dprivlib=/usr/share/perl/5.20 -Darchlib=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.20 -Dvendorprefix=/usr -Dvendorlib=/usr/share/perl5 -Dvendorarch=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl5/5.20 -Dsiteprefix=/usr/local -Dsitelib=/usr/local/share/perl/5.20.2 -Dsitearch=/usr/local/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.20.2 -Dman1dir=/usr/share/man/man1 -Dman3dir=/usr/share/man/man3 -Dsiteman1dir=/usr/local/man/man1 -Dsiteman3dir=/usr/local/man/man3 -Duse64bitint -Dman1ext=1 -Dman3ext=3perl -Dpager=/usr/bin/sensible-pager -Uafs -Ud_csh -Ud_ualarm -Uusesfio -Uusenm -Ui_libutil -Uversiononly -DDEBUGGING=-g -Doptimize=-O2 -Duseshrplib -Dlibperl=libperl.so.5.20.2 -des'
  hint=recommended, useposix=true, d_sigaction=define
  useithreads=define, usemultiplicity=define
  use64bitint=define, use64bitall=define, uselongdouble=undef
  usemymalloc=n, bincompat5005=undef
  Compiler​:
  cc='cc', ccflags ='-D_REENTRANT -D_GNU_SOURCE -DDEBIAN -fwrapv -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe -I/usr/local/include -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64',
  optimize='-O2 -g',
  cppflags='-D_REENTRANT -D_GNU_SOURCE -DDEBIAN -fwrapv -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe -I/usr/local/include'
  ccversion='', gccversion='4.9.2', gccosandvers=''
  intsize=4, longsize=8, ptrsize=8, doublesize=8, byteorder=12345678
  d_longlong=define, longlongsize=8, d_longdbl=define, longdblsize=16
  ivtype='long', ivsize=8, nvtype='double', nvsize=8, Off_t='off_t', lseeksize=8
  alignbytes=8, prototype=define
  Linker and Libraries​:
  ld='cc', ldflags =' -fstack-protector -L/usr/local/lib'
  libpth=/usr/local/lib /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.9/include-fixed /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu /usr/lib /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu /lib/../lib /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu /usr/lib/../lib /lib
  libs=-lgdbm -lgdbm_compat -ldb -ldl -lm -lpthread -lc -lcrypt
  perllibs=-ldl -lm -lpthread -lc -lcrypt
  libc=libc-2.19.so, so=so, useshrplib=true, libperl=libperl.so.5.20
  gnulibc_version='2.19'
  Dynamic Linking​:
  dlsrc=dl_dlopen.xs, dlext=so, d_dlsymun=undef, ccdlflags='-Wl,-E'
  cccdlflags='-fPIC', lddlflags='-shared -L/usr/local/lib -fstack-protector'

Locally applied patches​:
  DEBPKG​:debian/cpan_definstalldirs - Provide a sensible INSTALLDIRS default for modules installed from CPAN.
  DEBPKG​:debian/db_file_ver - http​://bugs.debian.org/340047 Remove overly restrictive DB_File version check.
  DEBPKG​:debian/doc_info - Replace generic man(1) instructions with Debian-specific information.
  DEBPKG​:debian/enc2xs_inc - http​://bugs.debian.org/290336 Tweak enc2xs to follow symlinks and ignore missing @​INC directories.
  DEBPKG​:debian/errno_ver - http​://bugs.debian.org/343351 Remove Errno version check due to upgrade problems with long-running processes.
  DEBPKG​:debian/libperl_embed_doc - http​://bugs.debian.org/186778 Note that libperl-dev package is required for embedded linking
  DEBPKG​:fixes/respect_umask - Respect umask during installation
  DEBPKG​:debian/writable_site_dirs - Set umask approproately for site install directories
  DEBPKG​:debian/extutils_set_libperl_path - EU​:MM​: set location of libperl.a under /usr/lib
  DEBPKG​:debian/no_packlist_perllocal - Don't install .packlist or perllocal.pod for perl or vendor
  DEBPKG​:debian/prefix_changes - Fiddle with *PREFIX and variables written to the makefile
  DEBPKG​:debian/fakeroot - Postpone LD_LIBRARY_PATH evaluation to the binary targets.
  DEBPKG​:debian/instmodsh_doc - Debian policy doesn't install .packlist files for core or vendor.
  DEBPKG​:debian/ld_run_path - Remove standard libs from LD_RUN_PATH as per Debian policy.
  DEBPKG​:debian/libnet_config_path - Set location of libnet.cfg to /etc/perl/Net as /usr may not be writable.
  DEBPKG​:debian/mod_paths - Tweak @​INC ordering for Debian
  DEBPKG​:debian/module_build_man_extensions - http​://bugs.debian.org/479460 Adjust Module​::Build manual page extensions for the Debian Perl policy
  DEBPKG​:debian/prune_libs - http​://bugs.debian.org/128355 Prune the list of libraries wanted to what we actually need.
  DEBPKG​:fixes/net_smtp_docs - [rt.cpan.org #36038] http​://bugs.debian.org/100195 Document the Net​::SMTP 'Port' option
  DEBPKG​:debian/perlivp - http​://bugs.debian.org/510895 Make perlivp skip include directories in /usr/local
  DEBPKG​:debian/deprecate-with-apt - http​://bugs.debian.org/747628 Point users to Debian packages of deprecated core modules
  DEBPKG​:debian/squelch-locale-warnings - http​://bugs.debian.org/508764 Squelch locale warnings in Debian package maintainer scripts
  DEBPKG​:debian/skip-upstream-git-tests - Skip tests specific to the upstream Git repository
  DEBPKG​:debian/patchlevel - http​://bugs.debian.org/567489 List packaged patches for 5.20.2-3+deb8u2 in patchlevel.h
  DEBPKG​:debian/skip-kfreebsd-crash - http​://bugs.debian.org/628493 [perl #96272] Skip a crashing test case in t/op/threads.t on GNU/kFreeBSD
  DEBPKG​:fixes/document_makemaker_ccflags - http​://bugs.debian.org/628522 [rt.cpan.org #68613] Document that CCFLAGS should include $Config{ccflags}
  DEBPKG​:debian/find_html2text - http​://bugs.debian.org/640479 Configure CPAN​::Distribution with correct name of html2text
  DEBPKG​:debian/perl5db-x-terminal-emulator.patch - http​://bugs.debian.org/668490 Invoke x-terminal-emulator rather than xterm in perl5db.pl
  DEBPKG​:debian/cpan-missing-site-dirs - http​://bugs.debian.org/688842 Fix CPAN​::FirstTime defaults with nonexisting site dirs if a parent is writable
  DEBPKG​:fixes/memoize_storable_nstore - [rt.cpan.org #77790] http​://bugs.debian.org/587650 Memoize​::Storable​: respect 'nstore' option not respected
  DEBPKG​:debian/regen-skip - Skip a regeneration check in unrelated git repositories
  DEBPKG​:fixes/regcomp-mips-optim - [perl #122817] http​://bugs.debian.org/754054 Downgrade the optimization of regcomp.c on mips and mipsel due to a gcc-4.9 bug
  DEBPKG​:debian/makemaker-pasthru - http​://bugs.debian.org/758471 Pass LD settings through to subdirectories
  DEBPKG​:fixes/perldoc-less-R - [rt.cpan.org #98636] http​://bugs.debian.org/758689 Tell the 'less' pager to allow terminal escape sequences
  DEBPKG​:fixes/pod_man_reproducible_date - http​://bugs.debian.org/759405 Support POD_MAN_DATE in Pod​::Man for the left-hand footer
  DEBPKG​:fixes/io_uncompress_gunzip_inmemory - http​://bugs.debian.org/747363 [rt.cpan.org #95494] Fix gunzip to in-memory file handle
  DEBPKG​:fixes/socket_test_recv_fix - http​://bugs.debian.org/758718 [perl #122657] Compare recv return value to peername in socket test
  DEBPKG​:fixes/hurd_socket_recv_todo - http​://bugs.debian.org/758718 [perl #122657] TODO checking the result of recv() on hurd
  DEBPKG​:fixes/regexp-performance - [0fa70a0] http​://bugs.debian.org/777556 [perl #123743] simpify and speed up /.*.../ handling
  DEBPKG​:fixes/failed_require_diagnostics - http​://bugs.debian.org/781120 [perl #123270] Report inaccesible file on failed require
  DEBPKG​:fixes/array-cloning - http​://bugs.debian.org/779357 [perl #124127] [902d169] fix cloning arrays with unused elements
  DEBPKG​:fixes/perldb-threads - http​://bugs.debian.org/779357 [perl #124127] [41ef2c6] lib/perl5db.pl​: Restore noop lock prototype
  DEBPKG​:fixes/CVE-2015-8607_file_spec_taint_fix - ensure File​::Spec​::canonpath() preserves taint


@​INC for perl 5.20.2​:
  /etc/perl
  /usr/local/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.20.2
  /usr/local/share/perl/5.20.2
  /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl5/5.20
  /usr/share/perl5
  /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.20
  /usr/share/perl/5.20
  /usr/local/lib/site_perl
  .


Environment for perl 5.20.2​:
  HOME=/home/justin
  LANG=en_GB.UTF-8
  LANGUAGE=en_GB​:en
  LD_LIBRARY_PATH (unset)
  LOGDIR (unset)
  PATH=/home/justin/bin​:/usr/local/bin​:/usr/bin​:/bin​:/usr/local/games​:/usr/games
  PERL_BADLANG (unset)
  SHELL=/bin/bash

@p5pRT
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p5pRT commented Feb 7, 2016

From @jkeenan

On Sat Jan 30 09​:05​:35 2016, justin@​purestblue.com wrote​:

This is a bug report for perl from justin@​purestblue.com,
generated with the help of perlbug 1.40 running under perl 5.20.2.

perldoc perlmodlib

Still outdated in current version seen at
http​://perldoc.perl.org/perlmodlib.html

perlmodlib suggests module developers go to nntp newsgroup
comp.lang.perl.misc for module naming advice. I've been subscribed to
that group for many years, and it has very, very little traffic these
days, I doubt it would be a good source of assistance for naming.

Here are the sentances in question (for easy searching)​:

"If in any doubt ask for suggestions in comp.lang.perl.misc."
"Comp.lang.perl.misc is read by just about all the people who develop
modules and it's the best place to ask." (I doubt this is even true!)

In addition, pause.perl.org suggests the mailing lists
modules@​perl.org and module_authors@​perl.org. I think these are a
suggestions (though I am not subscribed and do not know how many are -
I'm sure you're better placed to tell), and perhaps #perl on
irc.perl.org

There are certainly many parts of 'perlmodlib' which could be improved. However, in the interest of having a focused discussion and keeping the lifespan of a bug ticket as short as possible, I am only going to focus on the part of the document which the OP cited.

Patch attached. Please review. Given where we are in the annual release cycle, I'll be looking to apply this patch in seven days unless there are serious objections.

Thank you very much.

--
James E Keenan (jkeenan@​cpan.org)

@p5pRT
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p5pRT commented Feb 7, 2016

From @jkeenan

0001-Update-guidance-on-naming-of-modules.patch
From 4d5e03b23bc2b87cdd36b268fba1f910a8e43d3b Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: James E Keenan <jkeenan@cpan.org>
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2016 07:58:29 -0500
Subject: [PATCH] Update guidance on naming of modules.

Delete reference to comp.lang.perl.misc.  Add references to module-authors
list/newsgroup and to PAUSE.

For:  RT # 127435
---
 pod/perlmodlib.PL | 12 +++++++++---
 1 file changed, 9 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

diff --git a/pod/perlmodlib.PL b/pod/perlmodlib.PL
index 608b64e..aa6b18c 100644
--- a/pod/perlmodlib.PL
+++ b/pod/perlmodlib.PL
@@ -1223,7 +1223,6 @@ Module names should begin with a capital letter.
 Having 57 modules all called Sort will not make life easy for anyone
 (though having 23 called Sort::Quick is only marginally better :-).
 Imagine someone trying to install your module alongside many others.
-If in any doubt ask for suggestions in comp.lang.perl.misc.
 
 If you are developing a suite of related modules/classes it's good
 practice to use nested classes with a common prefix as this will
@@ -1244,6 +1243,12 @@ To be portable each component of a module name should be limited to
 11 characters. If it might be used on MS-DOS then try to ensure each is
 unique in the first 8 characters. Nested modules make this easier.
 
+For additional guidance on the naming of modules, please consult:
+
+    http://pause.perl.org/pause/query?ACTION=pause_namingmodules
+
+or send mail to the <module-authors@perl.org> mailing list.
+
 =item  *
 
 Have you got it right?
@@ -1253,8 +1258,9 @@ picked an interface design that will cause problems later? Have
 you picked the most appropriate name? Do you have any questions?
 
 The best way to know for sure, and pick up many helpful suggestions,
-is to ask someone who knows. Comp.lang.perl.misc is read by just about
-all the people who develop modules and it's the best place to ask.
+is to ask someone who knows. The <module-authors@perl.org> mailing list
+is useful for this purpose; it's also accessible via news interface as
+perl.module-authors at nntp.perl.org.
 
 All you need to do is post a short summary of the module, its
 purpose and interfaces. A few lines on each of the main methods is
-- 
1.9.1

@p5pRT
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p5pRT commented Feb 7, 2016

The RT System itself - Status changed from 'new' to 'open'

@p5pRT
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p5pRT commented Feb 8, 2016

From @rjbs

On Sun Feb 07 05​:12​:20 2016, jkeenan wrote​:

[a patch]

Thanks, Jim, looks good.

I wonder whether we would benefit from a cross-reference here to perlmodstyle (which mentions prepan) or perlnewmod. This wonderment makes me think that a bigger overhaul would be useful. I plan to do nothing about it myself, and if you do nothing either, I think that's fine. Perhaps you will feel suddenly quite inspired to make a change of some sort, though.

If all you do is apply this patch in a few days, you still get my thumbs up. ;)

--
rjbs

@p5pRT
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p5pRT commented Feb 9, 2016

From @jkeenan

On Sun Feb 07 19​:17​:19 2016, rjbs wrote​:

On Sun Feb 07 05​:12​:20 2016, jkeenan wrote​:

[a patch]

Thanks, Jim, looks good.

I wonder whether we would benefit from a cross-reference here to
perlmodstyle (which mentions prepan) or perlnewmod. This wonderment
makes me think that a bigger overhaul would be useful. I plan to do
nothing about it myself, and if you do nothing either, I think that's
fine. Perhaps you will feel suddenly quite inspired to make a change
of some sort, though.

If all you do is apply this patch in a few days, you still get my
thumbs up. ;)

Thanks, pushed to blead in commit f94c6c5

--
James E Keenan (jkeenan@​cpan.org)

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p5pRT commented Feb 9, 2016

@jkeenan - Status changed from 'open' to 'resolved'

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