From pete@petes-place.com

Michael,

Like I said. I'm bowing out of this whole mess until people here start
coming out of their own little worlds and start concentrating on the perl
community as a whole. I've said my piece. Now it's up to them to either fix
the problem, or sacrifice perl by ignoring it.

I've said a lot of things in the past few months. Some of them have been
rude, some of the rudeness was well deserved, well timed, correct, and
strong. (That's called being a good polemic writer.) A few things were
either incorrect or inappropriate​: for the latter I've apologized and have
tried to concentrate on larger issues. I've made predictions that were
laughed at, but came true. I've begged and pleaded with this group to stop
letting perl be corrupted for corporate benefit. It's all fallen on deaf
ears. Everyone seems content to live in their own little sheltered worlds.

The Perl 5 Porters group is the closest thing that the Perl Community has to
a governing body. To my knowledge, the only person who can overrule them is
Larry, in whom I find no guile and idolize not only because of perl but
because he is very much like me, sharing many common interests... except the
color chartreuse. Like it or not, the group has to act as that governing
body, and put a stop to these problems. I believe very strongly that
ActiveState is capable and willing to lead this language and community only
to corporate domination, possibly under some misguided belief that Microsoft
will help them get there and then miraculously leave them alone to enjoy
their dominion. If the porters fail to recognize this, and fail to act
accordingly...

Well, no point in repeating myself over again redundantly.

I don't address this group, and never have, as a group of programmers. I
address it as Perl's only governing body, or anything that represents a
governing body. Maybe there's some misunderstanding in that from them. This
group is composed of some of the highest "ranking" members of the perl
community, none of them willing to take a stand to defend this population
from corporate monopolization. With that rank comes responsibility, the
responsibility to care about the community they serve, represent, and are a
part of. There is nobody else to bring these issues to. Caring means not
allowing something to be corrupted, nurturing it, and all of it rather than
just this part or that.

There's a lot a brains in this group, but apparently not a lick of common
sense or foresight. Well, I will give credit to some, but the ones who do
show it, show it seldom and in very few, very polite words that get ignored
over and over again.

I apologize for publishing this to the group when your message was private​:
I did cut out the part that you would likely not want published here, and
what would just encourage a lynch mob. I just want the group to know that
I'm not going to be continuing in this thread or any similar, or trying to
help them to see what's happening... at least not for quite a while. If they
still can't see it for themselves, then it's because they've chosen not to,
and never will. I've said what needed to be said, now all I can do is sit
back and hope something good comes from it from the members of this forum. I
tend to doubt it, but all this community can do now is hope.

... i think i need a hug ...

I also thank you for your respect of personal dignity and your decency in
your email. It is noted and appreciated.

[author hidden]

Mr. Grove,

I have been following the discussion you started on p5p, and you
made a few
good points along the way, but I find this latest post offensive
and overly
paranoid.

[cut]

From [Unknown Contact. See original ticket]

David Grove <pete@​petes-place.com> writes​:

The Perl 5 Porters group is the closest thing that the Perl Community has to
a governing body. To my knowledge, the only person who can overrule them is
Larry,

There are parallels with Britsh constitution here - from a century or two
ago : Larry => monarch, Pumpking => Prime Minister, P5P => House of Lords,
c.l.p => House of Commons. In the current period of perl history the
monarch has stopped "running the country" himself and delegated it to
the Prime Minister who has been nominated by his peers. Monarch retains
the right of veto, and in practice Prime Minister cannot "get away" with
anything serious because the other "peers of the realm" would intervene.
This form of government sufficed to build the Britsh Empire to its height...

Like it or not, the group has to act as that governing
body, and put a stop to these problems.

We will when there are problems, right now there are not.

I believe very strongly that
ActiveState is capable and willing to lead this language and community only
to corporate domination, possibly under some misguided belief that Microsoft
will help them get there and then miraculously leave them alone to enjoy
their dominion. If the porters fail to recognize this, and fail to act
accordingly...

If the "Duchy of ActiveSates" alliance with the "Holy Redmond Empire" does
not work out that may be bad for the Duke - but is not fatal to the
Kingdom of Perl. In the meantime the indirect contribution to the
nations coffers is of benefit to all the citizens, and having Redmond's
"priests" educate the masses at their own expense is a good deal.

This group is composed of some of the highest "ranking" members of the perl
community, none of them willing to take a stand to defend this population
from corporate monopolization.

We will when it happens (or looks like happening come to that).

With that rank comes responsibility, the
responsibility to care about the community they serve, represent, and are a
part of. There is nobody else to bring these issues to. Caring means not
allowing something to be corrupted, nurturing it, and all of it rather than
just this part or that.

Sounds like what we do.

From @TimToady

Nick Ing-Simmons writes​:
: David Grove <pete@​petes-place.com> writes​:
: >
: >The Perl 5 Porters group is the closest thing that the Perl Community has to
: >a governing body. To my knowledge, the only person who can overrule them is
: >Larry,
:
: There are parallels with Britsh constitution here - from a century or two
: ago : Larry => monarch, Pumpking => Prime Minister, P5P => House of Lords,
: c.l.p => House of Commons. In the current period of perl history the
: monarch has stopped "running the country" himself and delegated it to
: the Prime Minister who has been nominated by his peers. Monarch retains
: the right of veto, and in practice Prime Minister cannot "get away" with
: anything serious because the other "peers of the realm" would intervene.
: This form of government sufficed to build the Britsh Empire to its height...
:
: >Like it or not, the group has to act as that governing
: >body, and put a stop to these problems.
:
: We will when there are problems, right now there are not.
:
: >I believe very strongly that
: >ActiveState is capable and willing to lead this language and community only
: >to corporate domination, possibly under some misguided belief that Microsoft
: >will help them get there and then miraculously leave them alone to enjoy
: >their dominion. If the porters fail to recognize this, and fail to act
: >accordingly...
: >
:
: If the "Duchy of ActiveSates" alliance with the "Holy Redmond Empire" does
: not work out that may be bad for the Duke - but is not fatal to the
: Kingdom of Perl. In the meantime the indirect contribution to the
: nations coffers is of benefit to all the citizens, and having Redmond's
: "priests" educate the masses at their own expense is a good deal.
:
: > This group is composed of some of the highest "ranking" members of the perl
: >community, none of them willing to take a stand to defend this population
: >from corporate monopolization.
:
: We will when it happens (or looks like happening come to that).
:
: >With that rank comes responsibility, the
: >responsibility to care about the community they serve, represent, and are a
: >part of. There is nobody else to bring these issues to. Caring means not
: >allowing something to be corrupted, nurturing it, and all of it rather than
: >just this part or that.
:
: Sounds like what we do.

Nick is right, David is wrong. Next question?

Larry